Call @ +91 – 9871251590

Category: Uncategorized

Mission 2021- Free SMS Training for all Aviation Stakeholders in India by Aviation Safety India.

Mission 2021- Free SMS Training for all Aviation Stakeholders in India by Aviation Safety India.
Dear Sir/Madam,

Greetings from Aviation Safety India.
Aviation Safety India will be conducting Online Free SMS Training on  28,29 May 21 at 1530 hrs.Duration- 2 hours 30 Mts.

Kindly give your requirement to whatsapp number 9871251590  or Email to Kindly give the Name,Email ID ,Whatsapp Number,License Number if any, Name of Company and Appointment of the candidate.
Aviation is Terribly Unforgiving of Lack of Knowledge,Skill,Carelessness and Neglect.
Happy Landings

Thanking You
With warm Regards
Narender Singh
GM Training
Aviation Safety Management Society of India
New Delhi

UP to have maximum number of international airports in the country with recent addition of Kushinagar

UP to have maximum number of international airports in the country with recent addition of Kushinagar

The Yogi Adityanath-led government in UP has sanctioned Rs 200 crore for the Kushinagar airport, which got the Directorate General of Civil Aviation’s (DGCA’s) approval recently for international airport.

Uttar Pradesh will soon be the state with maximum number of international airports in the country. With three new international airports expected to be made operational in the next three years, the state will soon have five international airports.

The Yogi Adityanath-led government in UP has sanctioned Rs 200 crore for the Kushinagar airport, which got the Directorate General of Civil Aviation’s (DGCA’s) approval recently, thus becoming the third licensed international airport in UP after Lucknow and Varanasi.

The Jewar international airport, which is coming up in the NCR region and is expected to be ready by 2023 while construction work for the international airport in Ayodhya is on full swing and air services are expected to start early next year, news agency Press Trust of India had earlier reported citing state government officials.

All these international airports in UP are expected to give a boost to the tourism sector in UP and aid in the development of the economically backward eastern region of the state.

“India is in talks with the Sri Lanka government for the country sending the first international flight to the newly upgraded Kushinagar airport. We expect the inaugural flight to happen soon. Though domestic air travel has picked up remarkably, we are waiting for international travel to revive, so that we can start regular operations at Kushinagar,” Financial Express quoted Vishak G, special secretary, civil aviation as saying. He further added that being situated strategically near the Nepal border and also close to Bihar would allow Kushinagar to become an ideal destination for Buddhist pilgrims from within the country as well as across the world.

“Kushinagar is an important historical site as Buddha is said to have attained Mahaparinirvana there. It is also the mid-point of the Buddhist circuit, which consists of pilgrimage sites at Lumbini, Shravasti, Kapilvastu, Sarnath and Gaya. Every day thousands of tourists from countries like Thailand, China, Malaysia, Thailand, Japan and Singapore, apart from domestic tourists, visit the site. Apart from facilitating international tourism, the airport can cater to domestic passengers, including the thousands of migrant workers from the area who work in the Middle East as well as in other parts of the country,” he says

NASA Develops Microphone That Can Detect ‘clear Air Turbulence’ On Aircraft

NASA Develops Microphone That Can Detect ‘clear Air Turbulence’ On Aircraft

NASA’s microphone could detect atmospheric turbulence more than 300 miles away from Pennsylvania skies when kept in equidistant triangular pattern.

Scientists at NASA have designed a microphone to detect the clear air turbulence that causes tremors in an aircraft whilst on a flight. According to NASA, the invisible “horizontal tornadoes” not only make the air travel for the passengers uncomfortable but are also hazardous and susceptible to an accident. “The attempts to avoid them can consume large amounts of fuel,” the space administration said in a release. Further, it revealed, that researchers have finally been able to develop a technology that can detect these zones, and with some engineering ingenuity, they could revolutionize both flight planning and aeronautical research.

“Everything in the atmosphere can make a sound. Volcanoes rumble, waterfalls crash, and air rushes, but there’s more to that sound than what our ears perceive,” NASA explained. It added that similar to the frequencies that cannot be heard in the infrared light, the atmosphere turbulence has an audio analog called infrasound that cannot be heard to the ear but can be detected via technology.

“There are no visible clouds or atmospheric features to warn of such disruption,” NASA said, adding that even as the clear air turbulence cannot be heard, it carries a definite infrasound signature. NASA’s researchers  Qamar Shams and Allan Zuckerwar at the Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, suggested that if the aircraft pilots or the air traffic controllers could listen to the clear air turbulence beforehand, they could plan an alternative route.

In an experiment that started in 2007, scientists modified a microphone that could detect the low frequencies in high fidelity to be able to capture the clear air turbulence. Shams and Zuckerwar replaced a normal microphone’s moving diaphragm that swells while picking audio waves with low-tension diaphragm made of a wide radius paired with a large, sealed air chamber behind it. This structure would allow the microphone to hear ultra-low sound waves from far away distances.

Developing HiDRON glider

Manufactured by PCB Piezotronics of Depew, New York, in collaboration with Langley. W, the microphone was positioned on the ground of langley’s runway in equidistant triangular pattern. It was found that they were effectively catching the atmospheric turbulence more than 300 miles away from Pennsylvania skies. Later, the scientists participated in the Space Race Challenge led by the Center for Advancing Innovation in cooperation with NASA for their advancement in startosdynamics and won first prize under the category unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) control system.

Later, NASA patented the technology which had the potential of being an in-flight turbulence detection sensor, and the company began the manufacture of the stratospheric glider known as the HiDRON, designed by their Canadian affiliate, Stratodynamics Aviation Inc. With the help of infrasound microphone and wind probe, the HiDRON glider was capable of using algorithms to detect turbulence from more than 100, 000 feet. “Stratodynamics Aviation is now working on a new version of the glider in collaboration with the Canadian Space Agency and the University of Waterloo in Ontario,” NASA informed.


Air India Express Accident At Andhra Airport Due To Pilot Error

Air India Express Accident At Andhra Airport Due To Pilot Error

Amaravati: A team of officials from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation visited the Vijayawada Airport at Gannavaram on Tuesday and conducted a preliminary investigation into the accident involving an Air India Express Boeing aircraft on February 20.

Official sources said pilot error caused the accident in which the Boeing aircraft suffered a minor damage on its right wing after it hit an electric pole while taxiing on the runway.

According to sources, a Canadian woman pilot commanded the flight when the accident occurred.

The aircraft landed from Doha, en route Tiruchirappalli, but all 64 passengers aboard were safe.

“The DGCA team launched a preliminary investigation into the accident and is probing various aspects. It has also inspected the damaged aircraft and spoke at length with the Canadian pilot,” the sources said but refused to divulge more details as “these things are confidential”.


With no takers for debt-ridden airline, Modi govt mulling sale of Air India’s profit-making subsidiaries.

With no takers for debt-ridden airline, Modi govt mulling sale of Air India’s profit-making subsidiaries.

As per sources, the government is planning to sell Air India’s profit-making subsidiaries first because despite multiple efforts, no one has come forward to buy the debt-ridden airline.

The government is preparing to put on sale Air India’s profit-making subsidiary, Air India Airport Services Limited (AI APS), National Herald has learnt.

Sources privy to the development told National Herald that the Finance Ministry is set to issue preliminary documents for the interested bidders soon.

The company, which was earlier called Air India Air Transport Services Limited, has been a profit-making firm since 2014.


Besides, as per the sources, other Air India subsidiaries like Air India Express – another profit-making venture mainly operating to and from the Middle East – and Air India Engineering Services Ltd may also be put on sale.


The sources claimed that the Modi government is planning to sell these profit-making subsidiaries first because despite multiple efforts, no one has come forward to buy the debt-ridden Air India.


As per the latest data, the AI APS which has 9,474 employees as of March 2019, earned a profit of Rs 63.8 crore during 2018-19.

“AI APS was incorporated in 2003 as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Air India Limited for providing manpower for the various departments of Air India, including Ground Handling. Consequent to the Cabinet approval, AI APS has been operationalised with effect from 1 February 2013 as a Ground Handling Company,” reads the website of AI APS.

The AI APS provides ground-handling services such as handling of ramps, passengers, baggage, cargo and cabin for Air India and its associate firms at 81 airports across India, along with ground-handling services to 37 foreign scheduled airlines, three domestic scheduled airlines and four regional airlines.

We contacted Ashvini Kumar Sharma, CEO, AI APS for his comments. The story will be updated as and when he replies.

Meanwhile, sources also told NH that discontent is brewing against the privatization bid among the employees and the unions have planned a nationwide protest in coming days.



Proactive Safety Initiatives by Aviation Safety India-New Year Resolution -Mission 2021-SMS Training for all Aviation Stake Holders

  Proactive Safety Initiatives by Aviation Safety India

 New Year Resolution – Mission 2021-SMS Training for all Aviation Stake Holders     

Greetings from Aviation Safety Management Society of India (ASMSI).

ASMSI is an All India Registered, Not for Profit Society, dedicated for the promotion of Aviation and Aviation Safety in the Country. ASMSI has been making concerted efforts to enhance the aviation related knowledge of Aviation Personnel through conduct of various types of Ground Training with particular emphasis on Safety Management System, Human Factors, Accident Prevention, Accident Investigation and Safety Audit. Our Website is loaded with plenty of material related to Aviation and Aviation Safety knowledge for the benefit of Aviation Professionals.

Safety Management System is a proven Management System for the promotion of Safety Culture in an organisation and prevention of Accident/Incidents. Unfortunately, the implementation of SMS among various stakeholders has been found wanting thus depriving them of the immense benefits of SMS.

The scope of SMS training includes all the personnel of an Operator right from CEO down to the lowest level of an employee in a Company. Safety concerns everyone and everyone has a role to play in ensuring good safety standards in an organisation. Hence, SMS training for all the personnel of an Operator including from Finance, HR and Admin Departments etc. is of paramount importance.

Most of the Operators get only those personnel trained for SMS who have been mandated by DGCA i.e., Accountable Executive/Manager, Chief of Flight Safety, Deputy Chief of Flight Safety, SMS Manager, Quality Manager in addition to Pilots and Cabin Crew. This leaves a large segment of an Operators employees who remain ignorant about the concept and advantages of SMS, which is not conducive for promotion of Safety. In an Aviation Organisation, Safety is everyone’s responsibility and hence everyone should be educated about the various safety related issues to enable them to contribute towards accident/incident free operations.

Most of the Operators have limited financial and human resources and are always hard pressed to spare the manpower and spend money towards the SMS training. This is a genuine problem faced by the Operators which compels them to avoid getting all their personnel trained since it involves expenditure which most of the Operators are unable to afford.

ASMSI has been pondering over the issue of financial constraints faced by the Operators and how to help and encourage the Operators to get their entire employees trained on SMS.

After due deliberations and in furtherance of its objectives, ASMSI has taken a decision to impart SMS training to all the employees of the Operators and other Stake Holders in Aviation, free of cost at their convenience, Online. In fact, ASMSI has made a New Year Resolution “Mission-2021 SMS Training for all” and we are keen to provide free SMS training to all the personnel of Aviation Industry during 2021.

In the recent past, number of progressive Aviation Organisations have made use of our offer for free SMS  training and ASMSI has trained number of Aviation professionals free of cost from following Organisations:

(a) Air India Flight Safety Department including Executive Director, Air Safety, Air India.

(b) Airport Authority of India FIU including ED FIU.

©   Tata Steel Aviation Limited.

(d)  Bajaj Auto Aviation.

(e)  Air Taxi.

(f)  Redbird Aviation.

(g)  Thumby Aviation Pvt Limited.

(h)  Australian Aviation Safety Department.

(j) VSR Ventures.

(k) Jet Serve

(l) Number of individuals from various Aviation related Departments.

Our “Mission 2021, Free SMS Training for All, is to reach out to maximum number of personnel from Aviation Industry to give the needed impetus towards implementation of SMS in a professional and effective manner to enhance Aviation Safety Standards in the country.

We would request all the Operators and other personnel from Aviation industry to make use of this opportunity to avail free high standards of SMS training, without any reservation. Training will be conducted based on the convenience of the personnel and will be planned accordingly.

DGCA has been making concerted efforts to achieve high standards of Safety, education and awareness in the country through various Pro-Active initiatives. ASMSI is keen to complement the sustained efforts of DGCA which is making tremendous efforts to manage such a large Aviation Industry in an effective and professional manner.  We request the guidance, support and cooperation of DGCA to help us in achieving our Mission -2021, Free SMS Training for all.

All the Aviation Personnel  are requested to give their SMS Training requirements to Telephone 9871251590,8178431060.

Many Many Happy Landings

Thanking you

Air Commodore BS Siwach AVSM YSM VM (





Bengaluru international airport runway upgraded for low visibility

The second runway of Kempegowda

international airport here has been upgraded to facilitate smooth operation of even during low visibility.

Inclement weather and foggy conditions will now have minimal impact on the movement of aircraft, the Ltd (BIAL), which operates the airport said in a statement.

The south runway is now category III B compliant and can facilitate aircraft landing with a runway visual range as low as 50 meters and take-offs at 125 metres.

Until now, the permissible visual range was 550 m and 300 m, for landing and take-off, respectively.

According to BIAL, the new landing facility makes the airport the only one in south India and sixth in the country that is CAT IIIB certified.

Flybig, India’s newest airline, to begin operations today: All you need to know

The Indian aviation industry get its newest airline Flybig, in the first week of 2021. The airline begins operations from its Indore base today (January 3), from where the inaugural flight to Ahmedabad will take off at 2.30 in the afternoon. Duration of the inaugural flight is an hour and five minutes.

In the initial couple of weeks, the airline founded by Sanjay Mandavia – a pilot-turned-aviation entrepreneur – will operate thrice a week. “We will later scale up to have five flights a week, from mid-February,” CEO Srinivas Rao told Moneycontrol.

From January 13, Flybig will add the Indore-Raipur route in its network. And from February 1, the airline will begin flying from Ahmedabad to Bhopal. By the end of March this year, the airline will have daily flights connecting all the three tier-2 cities.

Flybig has an ATR aircraft, and is in the process of getting a second one.

“We opened up bookings two days ago. The interest is good and we have seen bookings of 25 percent,” Rao, added. The airline has tied up with over 15,000 agents, many of them in the tier-2 cities. Talks are also on with online travel agencies.

The airline, which organised a ‘special flight’ for a differently abled on December 31 in Jabalpur, will add the city in its network in the second stage.

The launch of the new airline comes even as the domestic air traffic continues to improve, having got a push during the festive season and year-end travel. While the government had hiked the cap, enabling airlines to now use 80 percent of their capacity, the hope is now that this will be eased further.

Some concerns remain. Despite the governments beginning to administer vaccines, a new strain of COVID-19 has again brought back fears, especially for international travel. As a precautionary measure, India has suspended flights to the UK, where the new strain originated, till January 7.

Flybig’s plans

The airline, which had gotten its permit from regulator DGCA on December 14, partly began operations on December 21, when it operated a chartered flight with the aircraft taken on wet lease from SpiceJet. The airline flew from Delhi to Shillong, to coincide with the Meghalaya government’s step to open up the state for tourism as domestic travel recovers gradually from the COVID-19 pandemic.

“We have won the tender from the state government to operate the Delhi-Shillong flight for three years,” Rao had told Moneycontrol. From January, the company will operate two weekly flights on the route. Eventually, added the senior executive, the company plans to deploy its own aircraft on the route.

The airline will follow a hybrid model, by serving snacks on board, but un-bundling other services. “We don’t want to sell food on-board as the flying time is less. That will prevent us from giving a proper service and could lead to frustration among fliers. Thus we opted to offer snacks as part of the ticket,” he said.

Post the launch, the airline will look to serve tier 3 cities such as Bilaspur and Satna from Bhopal.


Air India A320neo Attemped To Take Off From Wrong Runway

An Air India Airbus attempted to take off from the wrong runway in Chennai last month. The Airbus A320-200neo was heading for Delhi, but the pilots began accelerating down the wrong runway. The control tower spotted the error in time, and the take-off was aborted.The incident, which occurred on November 13, 2020, was reported in The Aviation Herald. According to that report, the aircraft was VT-EXM, and it was operating Air India flight AI554. That flight is the scheduled 21:30 departure from Chennai International Airport.According to the report in The Aviation Herald, the Airbus was cleared to depart from runway 25 but instead began rolling down runway 30. The control tower was able to stop the plane in time, aborting the takeoff.India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has reportedly begun an investigation into the incident. But the Bureau’s website does not provide information on current investigations or incidents.Air India has nearly 30 Airbus A320-200neos. The aircraft in question, VT-EXM, is less than three years old. This is the first known incident involving this aircraft.

The incident adds to the problems facing Air India. Most recently, an Air India Express Boeing 737 overshot the runway at Calicut International Airport in early August. There were 190 onboard, and 21 people died. At the time, India’s Civil Aviation Minister, Hardeep Singh Puri, said pilot competence was not an issue.

“We had a very accomplished, experienced, decorated person in command of the aircraft,” the Minister told The Business Standard.

That publication said the Captain of the ill-fated Boeing had 10,000 hours of flying experience on the Boeing 737 aircraft, more than half of that while in charge. The co-pilot had 1,728 hours of flying experience on the 737 aircraft.

Recently, an attempt to establish a judicial probe and a Central Bureau of India investigation into the accident failed at Kerala’s High Court.

While there were no reported injuries with the A320-200neo incident in November, an AAIB investigation suggests it is being taken seriously.

Problems at India’s aviation safety & investigation body?

But the AAIB faces its own in-house problems. When setting up a team to investigate the fatal Air India crash in August, the organization (a division of India’s Ministry of Civil Aviation) sidelined its own people in favor of external experts. Only one person on the five-member panel investigating the Calicut Airport crash is from the AAIB.

This is despite the AAIB reputedly having several dozen in-house experts, including safety personal, pilots, other crew members, and investigators.

But a source with the AAIB told Outlook India in August that the AAIB wasn’t up to the job.

“In the past eight years, we haven’t been able to enrich AAIB with adequate and competent manpower. This is a mockery of aircraft accident investigation in India. It looks like the country doesn’t have a single competent investigator to investigate the Calicut crash.

That source wasn’t prepared to put his or her name to the quote. But even if half right, it flags a possible problem within India’s premier airline accident and incident investigations body. It also suggests we might never really know why the pilots on AI554 in November started to take-off on the wrong runway.

Why drones have raised the odds and risks of small wars

This use of relatively disposable drones has created an offence-defence balance in real-life wars that is more typical of cyberspace, where the attacker has a distinct cost advantage.

Amajor hero of two recent conflicts — in Libya and in Nagorno-Karabakh — isn’t even human. It’s an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), or drone, called the Bayraktar TB2 and made by Baykar, a Turkish company in which President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s son-in-law, Selcuk Bayraktar, serves as the chief technical officer.

In Libya last year, the TB2 scored some successes against a vaunted Russian anti-aircraft system, Pantsir, helping the United Nations-recognized government of Fayez al-Sarraj hold Tripoli against the onslaught of General Khalifa Haftar, who had armed himself with the Pantsirs.

In Nagorno-Karabakh this fall, the same drone was instrumental in unleashing hell on Armenian tanks, artillery and, again, some Russian-made anti-aircraft equipment. It helped bring about Azerbaijan’s decisive victory and a Moscow-brokered peace deal that returned to Azerbaijan most of the territory it lost in a previous war in the 1990s.

That UAVs can play such a visible part in modern wars is a big part of their appeal. As Ulrike Franke of the European Council on Foreign Relations, whose area of expertise includes drone warfare, pointed out in a Twitter thread, “using drones is like having a film crew with you.” The footage filmed by the unmanned aircraft as they attack is often used by governments for propaganda purposes, and it’s far more convincing than the usual conflicting claims by belligerents; independent observers use it to verify the reports.

An even bigger advantage, however, comes from how Turkey and its allies — the al-Sarraj government and the Azerbaijani regime of President Ilham Aliyev — have used drones to upset the offense-defense balance. Whether or not you subscribe to the theory that wars will be fought when the cost of attacking is much lower than the cost of defending, it is both intuitively clear and experimentally proven that losing a drone, or two or three, is less painful, and carries a lower cost, than losing a tank or a manned aircraft. Sending drones into battle is a lot like playing a computer game — and indeed, gamers may make better UAV operators than trained pilots. In both the Libyan and Karabakh wars, the drone operators apparently took a lot of risks to figure out the opposing side’s vulnerabilities, caring relatively little if they lost a UAV or two along the way.

In addition to the relatively costly TB2s — the price tag is several million dollars apiece, not including control centers — Azerbaijan used pretty much anything that could fly, including old Soviet An-2 agricultural planes refitted into UAVs. It also bought kamikaze drones from Israel.

This use of relatively disposable drones has created an offense-defense balance in real-life wars that is more typical of cyberspace, where the attacker has a distinct cost advantage (though some argue that’s mostly because defenders just aren’t nimble enough). Playing whack-a-mole against drones is a lot like chasing hackers.

The shift toward PlayStation reality isn’t necessarily reshaping hypothetical conflicts between major military powers. Superiority in traditional aircraft can still trump the drone advantage. The defense lobby has an interest in continuing to make and sell expensive manned aircraft, and the U.S. and Russia will continue to buy and upgrade them because of the planes’ range and sheer destructive power. But, as Franke pointed out, “for smaller states, which do have air forces, but only have a limited number of aircraft — as is the case for both Armenia and Azerbaijan — drones are quite an important contribution because they boost aerial capabilities.”

Drones, however, can be a nuisance to major powers — just ask Russia. Anyone can build a drone, as Islamist militants proved in Syria when they sent a swarm of basic UAVs against the Russian base in Hmeimim, Syria, in 2018. The attack was thwarted, but it made clear that less protected targets could be hit in a similar fashion.

The rise of the drone has also created a problem for Russia by sowing doubts about its anti-aircraft systems — one of the country’s biggest defense exports. Armenia bet on these products (although perhaps not the best or most modern ones) and lost. After the Pantsir ran into trouble in Libya, the Russian military’s official weekly Zvezda denied the Pantsir’s humiliating vulnerability to the Turkish drones; yet even as it did so, it allowed that the anti-aircraft system has a “blind zone” that an adversary can learn to penetrate.

The Russian propaganda machine has taken pains to reassure the populace, and the Russian defense industry’s clients, that the country has an answer to the UAV threat. Various websites have spread stories about the use of the Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system to help Armenia avoid a total defeat. The Krasukha, first deployed in Syria in 2015, jams radar and GPS signals as well as other electronic communications. Theoretically, it can render drones helpless. Whether it was really used in the Karabakh war was never officially confirmed; General Movses Hakobyan, a top Armenian military official who resigned after the defeat, said Armenia managed to thwart the Bayraktar TB2 for four days when given the use of a different, newer Russian electronic warfare system, Pole-21, first received by the Russian military last year.

But while Russia has emphasized developing its capacity for such electronic warfare, its effectiveness against tactics pioneered by Turkey and its allies is unclear. Jamming, for instance, could devolve into just another game of whack-a-mole.

Ukrainians, for one, see some potential in using drones against Russia-backed forces. Last year, Ukraine signed a $69 million deal with Baykar to buy six TB2s, control equipment and ammunition. Ukraine is now reportedly working with the Turkish company to launch local production. The example of Azerbaijan’s successful attack on Karabakh is inspiring to Ukrainian leaders, who haven’t given up on reclaiming the country’s east, now controlled by pro-Russian separatists.

Russia, however, isn’t the only major military power that should worry about the proliferation of drones. Any country or military bloc that conducts overseas operations and gets involved in local conflicts will likely have to deal with the growing threat. According to a study by Michael Horowitz of the University of Pennsylvania and his collaborators, of the 22 countries that possess armed drones now, 19 have acquired them since 2010, and 14 since 2014, most of them thanks to the “supply shock” of China’s 2011 entry into the market. More than 20 other countries are pursuing the capability, Horowitz found. It is, among other things, a pursuit of status: Drones are synonymous with technological innovation.

Intervention in the deadly computer games of tomorrow could be fraught with embarrassment, or worse, for the big players. And, if the offense-defense balance theory is correct, such interventions will be called for more frequently: Going on the attack is no longer as scary or as expensive as it used to be.- Bloomberg

In addition to the relatively costly TB2s — the price tag is several million dollars apiece, not including control centers — Azerbaijan used pretty much anything that could fly, including old Soviet An-2 agricultural planes refitted into UAVs. It also bought kamikaze drones from Israel.

This use of relatively disposable drones has created an offense-defense balance in real-life wars that is more typical of cyberspace, where the attacker has a distinct cost advantage (though some argue that’s mostly because defenders just aren’t nimble enough). Playing whack-a-mole against drones is a lot like chasing hackers.